In the book there wasn't really an actual name for this earthquake, but there is a name for the actual earthquake. The name is The Great Lisbon Earthquake And Tsunami. This occured on November 1, 1755. About 90,000 people were killd in Lisbon, a city of 230,000. It was estimated that the earthquake was an 8.6 earthquake. This was very deadly. (http://www.drgeorgepc.com/Tsunami1755Lisbon.html) I believe that the inquisitor was part of the Catholic Church. Specifically, I think it was the Roman Catholic Church. I searched up inquisitor and then inquisition. I came upon information that says that the inquisition was a former special tribunal, engaged chiefly in combating and punishing heresy, of the Roman Catholic Church. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inquisition)
In chapter 5 I believe that Voltaire is satirizing the beliefs of the Christians and the concpet of optimism. Voltaire creates James death is used to represent the uselessness of christian beliefs and all that they stand for. James death also contradicts Pangloss's theory that the world is the best of all worlds. James is good while the sailor he attempts to save is evil, by the sailor surviving emphasizing that every situation does not end positively like Pangloss beleives.
I think Voltaire is satirizing Pangloss because Pangloss is still optimistic even though there is destruction around him. As well as it is dangerous to believe in all is for the best because the Inquisitor finds that idea to be heresy. The Inquisitor states if all is for the best, then there could not be punishment. This shows Voltaire is satirizing the idea of optimism is twisted logic. When Pangloss tries to defend his point; he spews out warped logic which Voltaire is satirizing. Voltaire shows warped logic cannot be backed up because in the end there is nothing to back up at all.
"The devastating Lisbon earthquake occurred on November 1, 1755. More than 30,000 people, many of them in church to celebrate the feast of All Saints Day, were killed. Large parts of the city of Lisbon were destroyed." (http://www.pinkmonkey.com/booknotes/barrons/candide3.asp)
There was a earthquake as Semir stated and Voltaire does uses it to satirize Pangloss's theory of optimism.
Sarah: i had the same interpretation except the part with Christianity. I don't understand how he goes at Christianity. Other than me not understanding the Christianity part, I had everything else.
Yes, the Inquisitor is a part of the Catholic Church. He represents the Inquisition, which was the group of religious investigators who would call people into questioning if they suspected that they had a different belief of what the Church believed in. Pangloss was really stupid to actually tell the Inquisitor straight up about his belief.
I'm sure that the inquisitor's armed attendant was well aware of Pangloss as well. I'm not sure about why the Inquisitor nodded his head, but I believe that the armed attendant was considering taking Pangloss somewhere where they would question him more.
One Question that I do have is how come James didn't get a ridiculious name like the rest of the Characters from Candide? Is it possible that Voltaire had a specific role for James?
The earthquake is kind of like the 7 year war and both of these events killed many people. But Pangloss is still optimistic about these events. Voltaire uses the earthquake to show how Candide has to go through a journey which disproves Leibniz idea of optimism
Yes Pangloss is talking about non-sense things. Remember in this book, Voltaire has a purpose to satirize Leibniz idea of optimism. Leibniz idea of optimism is represented through Pangloss. So, Voltaire in this chapter is saying optimism is warped logic and there is nothing to back up "all is for the best" because there is always destruction in this world whether we want it or not.
Wilson- I think that the role of James was to portray Leibniz theory wrong. The character James has such a short role, it could be that Voltaire uses his life span to express that the enlightenment ideas should die quickly as well.
I had a few questions for chapter 5: 1.When pangloss is talking to the Inquisitor, why does he respond by telling him that he does not beleibve in original sin, in this case what is original sin? Is it the same as a sin, or a sin of going against church teachings since originally people went against church teachings? 2.Why did the sailor say that he walked on the crucifix four times? I researched the crucifix and it is an image of a cross with Jesus on it. Is he saying that he went through "crucifiction" , or harsh punishment just like the one as Jesus'? 3.Why did the sailor throw James out the boa even after saving his life? Why did he strike him in the first part? I think that this sailor is greedy and selfish because evn after the earthquake in Lisbon he is gettin drunk, trying to find money and women. 4.Is universal reasoning the same as common sense and/or human reasoning?
I disagree- I think the sailor was taking advantage of the circumstance. His intentions were not good, as like Juan said, he rummaged around in the remains for money to get drunk and pay someone to have sex with.
I agree with you. The sailors intentions are bad. Also, he states he will get something out of this shipwreck. This shows the sailor does not care about the dead people and only cares about what he can get out of the situation he is in. He is a very selfish man.
Wilson - Read ahead to chapter 6. In chapter 6, Pangloss is arrested because he spoke. I think when the Inquisitor nods his head to the armed attendant, it means they are going to arrest Pangloss because of heresy since Pangloss talked about optimism which went against christian ideas.
Why did Pangloss let the Anabaptist die? Why did the sailor just do all those actions after the earthquake happened? What was the earthquake named? Why did Voltaire put, “A little man in black”?
Danny- Voltaire is satirizing how a small man has so much power in society. The little man is the Inquisitor and if he catches someone committing heresy, then he has the power to take that person and torture him until that person believes in christianity.
Danny- I can't answer all your question but i think Voltaire put a little man in black to show that the people of the church all small in size and insignificant yet big in power but its just a guess and thought i'm not so sure
I disagree with your statement about why they let James die. James in Christianity was one of twelve men that promoted the religion its self. I though Voltaire was satirizing the fact that religion was some what annoying and not needed. Letting James die in the book, means that Religion should be rejected just like the sailors did with his life.
Julio: You have a point with Batavia as a pirate ship but I had also researched that it was a city in Indonesia that was taken over by the French. The Batavia ship was wrecked way before the earthquake and he might not have even been around during the time the actual one was gone. He had also gone to Japan a few times which is closer to Indonesia than Portugal. Also he does say he wants something out of this (Voltaire 26), but I believe he actually just wants the money clearly to forget about what has just happened and make believe it was just there to be there. I also doubt the sailor would have really risked his life just to get something be believes is earned. The only optimistic people in this book were Candide and Pangloss, maybe a little of James, but everyone else is a little pessimistic. Although your idea fits in Julio, it might just be another satire.
By letting James die in the book, it does show religion is rejected. This shows evil triumphs over those that believe in the well being of others. Voltaire is satirizing how evil wins in the end and there is nothing good or optimistic about this world.
In chapter 5, does Voltaire purposely use Batavia as the name of the country? I found that Batavia was also a ship's name that goes with the context of the book, that's why.
Why was the Inquistor dining with Pangloss and Candide with the citizens?
Did the Inquisitor have high power in the Church because Voltaire describes him as "a little man in black"? (Voltaire 30)
The reason why there is a city called Batavia in Indonesia because Batavia the ship crashed in Indonesia. When he explains he "walked the crucifix" he means he walked the plank. It's explained as crucifix because the plank is perpendicular to the edge of the ship forming a cross. Crashing in Indonesia probably let him to sail around Asia explaining why he was thrown overboard four times. He is explaining to Pangloss that he is above natural reason in surviving all of those incidents.
Wow! Again, you guys are awesome. I love that Julio and Jeffrey, who are normally quiet in class, have voiced so many ideas. Equally, Sarah has some great points.
Juan's comments are interesting but hard. What is the concept of original sin? Why can't you have free will according to Pangloss? Why is it heresy to say that we have a predestination?
This chapter definitely satirizes the Catholic church and,of course, optimism.
I am aware that this section is for chapter five, however I have one concern in chapter seven. In chapter seven, why does Cunegonde say getting raped and disemboweled were two incidents that happened to her, yet she says they are not fatal. When you get your organs taken out, doesn't it mean you should be dying within sometime soon?
Sarah I agree with you. In this chapter that could be criticizing optimism. It's criticizing optimism because all this happened to her and she's seems to be calm about it. If this would have happened to another person they would have been traumatized.
Janet- I agree with Sarah about disembowelment would be realistically serious, so it can be part of the category warped logic. It can also be understatement because Cunegonde made it sound like it wasn't fatal, when normally it will be a serious situation.
Sarah and Sally-- I think it is an improbable situation, and a little bit of exaggeration. How can someone live after having their insides ripped out? Plus, it was so long ago that they didn't have the medical resources like we have. As for exaggeration, I think its getting pretty rediculous that her and Candide survived so much.
Also, I think that it's kind of funny that Candide is finally starting to question optimism once Pangloss is gone. What do you think Voltaire is trying to say?
Guys I agree with Sarah, but I also think it's like improbable situation or exaggeration, possibly understatement? Like oh I only got my heart taken out no big deal. I don't know. Yeah I was also confused about that. Voltaire is maybe satirizing it though? I was kind of thinking that he was like satirizing optimism? Like since Pangloss died he's satirizing it through Cunegonde. I actually didn't stop reading I was interested but I thought it was funny when he said it was Cunegonde.
At the end of chapter 7, have any of you noticed the phrase: "...related in a perfectly natural manner everything he had experienced since his parting..."?
For the word "relate", is this word describing about his "perfectly natural manner" or about relating his experience with Cunegonde?
There's also the phrase "devoured her with his eyes".Isn't strange that Candide can still think about "that" while they are talking about their misfortune? This phrase just don't go with the talk of misfortune!
Maureen and Sally- I also agree that Cunegonde surviving after disembowelment is an improbable situation. In a twisted way Cunegonde is the source of Candide's faith, as Candide is reunited with her he becomes hopeful again.
Sally I thought that phrase "devoured her with his eyes" was strange also!
Sally- Well, I know they are talking about misfotunes and all, but you need to keep in mind that the two lovers haven't seen each other in a long time. He also was convinced that everything was a dream, so if I were him I would take advantage of seeing Cunegonde. Your first quote was also rather interesting. I agree that he is relating his perfect experience with Cunegonde. It was perfect for him, and expiremental physics IS natural...
Samantha-- I disagree. I think Pangloss might have been influencing Candide a little TOO much. Candide is very stupid and gullible so Pangloss' teachings made a lot of sense to him. When he died, Candide finally got to think for himself and outside of his little optimistic box. He started to doubt what he's been learning all his life (there was a lot of it in Ch. 6 too).
Maureen- Yeah, I agree with you when you say that Candide is very stupid/gullible. Well I kind of read on to the next chapter when Cunegonde tells Candide her story, and the events that she say occured don't seem like believable at all; which is probably how Voltaire wanted it and to show Candide's naive.
IM BEING A LEADER AND STARTING A CHAPTER 7 DISCUSSION
Im not sure what Voltaire is satirizing in chapter 7. Is it christianity? On page 29 he names all these people like Lady of Atocha and My Lord Saint Anthony of Padua and My Lord Saint James of Compostella. I thought maybe it was christianity, but I can use some opinions on this. Help me please!!!!!
Hadeel, we've been talking about chapter 7 for a while sorry to burst your bubble :D
I think it might be society's ignorance here. Candide represents society and once the enlightenment thinkers aren't there to think for them, they start to get confused and lose hope in everything.
I agree with Maureen. It was established by Voltaire in the earlier chapters that Pangloss is a bit "slimy" and made out to be more than he is worth. Without Pangloss hovering by Candide's side, Candide is not constantly reminded that the world "is the best of all worlds" and is starting to think other wise. Voltaire uses a true event in history ( the earthquake on November 1, 1755—All Saints’ Day) to create a turning point for the enlightenment ideas of optimism.
You are entirely right...Voltaire is making reference to these saints to justify his criticism on Christianity. Another thing you should further anaylize is Voltaire's perception on the idea of optimism. He gestures this ideal concept by introducing the reader of this anonymous lady who cares for Candide, and also recovered Cunegonde. This idea centers the meaning of all is for the best, and everything happens for a reason. I guess you can say it was destiny that this two lovers reunited.
Wait! If Cunegonde’s organs were taken out, why is she still alive? This shows that something else happened. She might have another side of the story than what Pangloss said to Candide. Pangloss "saw" what ever happened to Lady Cunegonde. It must have been the same as in chapter five when he said that the harbor was meant for the Anabaptist to die in it, Pangloss must have just ran away without helping on the destructing of the castle.
Janet- Cunegonde never really did say what really happened. If she did why is she still alive talking to Candide? Maybe reading chapter eight will help us understand what happened to everyone.
-Taylor Knowing now how Voltaire writes Im gooing to keep in mind that "all is for the best". Plus I can't forget that he always brings back the bad characters anytime he gets the chance to. So I agree with you it was ddestiny that these two lovebirds met once again.
I don't really think Voltaire is satarizing christianity in this chapter, but that's how I view it. The reason why is because the old lady lists they lovely spanish catholic saints, but Candide recieves amazing treatment after she said it. Nothing bad happened to him after. As a matter of fact, he remet the love of his life! What else can be better for him?
Sally--I think the devouring part of the chapter was just an exaggeration. Candide was probably really into Cunegonde's side of the story. As Maureen said, Candide and Cunegonde have been through so much, and haven't seen eachother for so long. As lovers, they probably thought of eachother throughout the whole time period. Candide obeys Cunegonde and is extremely interested to hear her story. I mean after all, he thought she was dead all along! I'm probably not correct, but this is the view from my side. As for the relating part of the chapter, Candide is relating his tragic, terrible story of misfortune to the natural ways of the world. Everything happens for the best of all reasons. As we should all know by now, all is for the best!
Janet-- I totally agree with Maureen that Cunegonde's non fatal injury is an improbable statement. It is obviously a lie that someone can't die from being sliced open and their organs come splurting out. It's a lie, but with a hint of truth. Cunegonde could really be injured or just scarred with the memory. Also, you say that Cunegonde should be dying sometime soon, but keep in mind: this woman is still terribly injured! "She was supporting with difficulty a trembling woman..." (Candide 33) The poor thing is probably still weak and terrified.
What I meant by the first quote was that Candide was retelling his whole bad experiences since he left the Baron's castle. Normally, people would have trouble retelling their terrible experiences; instead, he was saying it in a "natural" manner. It was similar to Cunegonde's manner on retelling about her being disembowled and raped.
I think optimism is going to continue through the whole book though. Like cause even though they are both in like some pretty redicoulus situations, they don't completely abandon the optimism that they had when Pangloss was still alive.
Hadeel- Like Taylor said, Candide and Cunegonde's encounter could be labeled as destiny. At the time, destiny went against the Christian beliefs. No one in the Catholic Church's opinion had a set future. I believe Voltaire is using this scene to satirize Christianity.
Sally- Oh! That makes way more sense than mine. Thanks!
Taylor- I don't really see anything bad about what he said, though. That's why I don't think he's satirizing. Also, Voltaire wasn't making the point that all is for the best. He's saying that its stupid! (I agree)
Cunegonde surviving the disembowlment could be critiism of the enlightenment. He was against the enlightenment, so you have to remember that the fact it was a huge turning point and affective part of history got him angry. This is most likely where most of his satire comes from. Now, the fact that Cunegonde surivived the disembowlment could be satirizing enlightenment is realistic seeing how she believed "all is for the best". By believing in this many people "bought into" the enlightenment. Volatire thought that this wasn't true, but he knew that by believing in these theories many people thought they were correct. Just as in Galileo those who followed the Catholic church's teachings and not science found themselves to be trully right, and to turn out with the most power.
I also found there was criticism towards Christianity. Voltaire named the saints: Lady of Antocha, Anthony of Padua and James of Compostela. The story of the Lady of Antocha is actually very interesting. In 711, the Moors captured Granada. They took control over the Catholics and imprisoned them. over time there were the Moors lessened the ways of the Catholics retrieving food and water. The women prayed to The lady of Antocha, who's statue had a baby in her arms. After some time had passed, a 12 year old boy was spotted over and over again. Despite his appearance of a pilgrim, it was soon believed that he was Antocha's son. The women and men all prayed and expressed their gratitude toward the Lady. Saint anthony is the Catholic saint of lost items, the pooor, and travelers. By naming these saints, Voltaire is saying that their stories and myths are promoted by the Catholic church. When you actually read these stories you can see how improbable the situations are in them.
Hadeel- I don't think it's being satirized in chapter 7. An old christian woman helps Candide and reunites him with his lover. How is that satirizing? There's nothing negative intended... or I'm just reading it wrong...
To tell you the truth guys, I really don't think this chapter has anything to do with religion. The only section that speaks of anything related to relgion is the part where the old woman speaks those few names. I don't see how that satirizes christianity at all.
this blog helps a lot but it is also kind of confusing because now i'm thinking different things. i agree with stephanie and hadeel. it is kind of satirizing christianity because when you do reasech the saints you find out information that ties up to the story.
Stephanie-- Voltaire wasn't necassarily against the enlightenment. He was part of it-- he was merely criticizing. And christianity- Where's the negativity? I know he mentions it, but I have failed to notice anything bad about the situation.
Shelly- I think it is satirizing religion. Who talks about saints taking care of you?! I find that more of idol worship, I thought that God took care of you instead of someone else (saint).
Danny-- We don't know Cunegonde's story because it's the next chapter! We're going to be like Candide, devouring her story and figuring out what happened. (Haha, bad humor)
I'm actually kind of confused with where this old woman comes from. Isn't it odd how every encounter Candide has with a stranger they are overly generous and will to help him. Could this mean something?
i agree with Samantha. The book is criticizing Leibniz's idea throughout about optimism, which we learned from Ms.Karvunis. How is he criticizing optimism though?
I never thought of it that way; the earthquake symbolizing a new beginning in the story. It makes sense when you think about how Pangloss died, and how Candide is not thinking much about the concept of "all if for the best".
For chapter seven, the fact that Cunegonde lived through a "must likely death" situation proves Voltaire is using an improbably situation. Also the reaction of Cunegonde not caring and worrying the fact she almost died, shows optimism. At first, I thought Voltaire will end the satizing of optimism, because of the lost of Pangloss, but I am guessing not. When I thought about how Candide might carry out Pangloss's teaching, I figured the story might go back to optimism.
In chapter 7, Voltaire is mostly using exaggeration, improbable situation, and maybe a little understatement. When Cunegonde said that her accidents weren't fatal, would that be an understatement? I figured because she is taking lightly of her situation of being disemboweled and living from it. I figure it extremely impossible for her to live without her bowels. Voltaire probably created it like this to make fun of how impossible things can become, and how the optimistic people that learned from Pangloss would not even care of these big situations because they believe all is for the best.
Shelly- I think it satirizes christianity because of the back story of the saints and how it in no way is what is happening in the characters' lives. Despite the fact that they believe in these saints and christianity should mean that they arw gaining something out of this faith. In actuality, these saints aren't living up to their names, or what it is people believe in them for.
Danny-- I'd really like to know how this is satirizing religion. Just because something that is related to a main topic doesn't mean it's being satirized. I don't see anything funny about the old lady blessing Candide. Like I said before to Hadeel, after she said those words Candide remeets the love of his life, he heals, and regains his health. What's so bad about it? Is it humorous that a man is being blessed? I thought it was natural for religious people to say that.
Shelly - In chapter 7, the second paragraph clearly states Voltaire is satirizing religion. Candide tries to kiss the old woman's hand because the old woman was very generous to Candide by helping him, but the old woman tells Candide it is not my hand you should kiss. I think the old woman is referring to Christ and that he should be grateful Christ exists.Voltaire is satirizing how some people may be deceitful because the old woman kind of bribes Candide into accepting Christianity.
Maybe Candide demands for guidence especailly since he is so simple minded, and could care less(i assume) Thats a great point though...maybe we should both anaylize further!!
This may be contradicting Candide a little. Remember in another chapter he said that the rich men would help him or whatever? This woman seems like a not so wealthy women because she brings him to her hovel which is: 1. a small, very humble dwelling house; a wretched hut. 2. any dirty, disorganized dwelling. 3. an open shed, as for sheltering cattle or tools. (www.dictionary.com)
It seems the old woman helps him more than a rich person has that he's had a convo. with. Like those men that beat him.
I agreed with Shelly about chapter 7 not having to do much with religion because chapter 7 is mostly about how Candide is healing by the help of the old woman. Then later on he meets Lady Cunegonde again which is kind of weird because like what Maureen said how can someone live if they got their insides ripped out?
[continuing previous post-] and she helps him by taking care of him and the ointment and the food and the water etc. also by bringing him and Cunegonde together
Julio-- I DON'T THINK SO. The reason why the old lady doesn't let Candide kiss her hand is because he shouldn't be kissing hers. This keeps us wondering why, but if you read on into the story we find out Cunegonde has sent the old lady to help Candide.
Shelly: chapter three where the orator's wife was blessing Candide for his opinion that he believes that the Pope isn't the Anti-Christ, as the same with her.
Pangloss is a liar! In chapter 4; Pangloss tells Candide that Cunegonde is disemboweled by the Prussians basically she is ripped apart. In chapter 7, Candide discovers Cunegonde is alive. This shows Pangloss lied to Candide about Cunegonde and she is still alive.
Questions: Why did Voltaire want Cunegonde back into the plot?
Danny-- It's still not a main topic that Voltaire is satirizing in this chapter. I do not see any element of satire towards religion. There's no exaggeration, warped reasoning, ridiculous name, improbable statement or an understatement. Nothing. Nada.
I found this quote said by Voltaire “For seventeen hundred years the Christian sect has done nothing but harm”
“Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd, and bloody religion that has ever infected the world”
I have not exactly pinpointed how exactly Voltaire is satirizing Christianity, but he definitely is against it and hinting these ideas throughout Candide.
You two are going down! Let's get them Danny! Shelly just because it didn;t make you laugh doesn't mean it's not satire, which it is! What's funny about it is that she says for the saints to be with him, and he thinks all is for the best which actually goes against the church. That's the forst part. The second part is that Candide has been through all these hardships and yet despite it some old lady is just going to tell him oh I hope these saints help you? Yeha ok that's really going to help. Which is the point I think Voltaire was trying to make.
Can we all make things clear here!!..Then if Volatire is not criticizing Christianity nor religion as a whole..then what is he imposing...I'm a bit confused
~Julio Pangloss didn't really lie, in chapter 7, Cunegonde says "He's right, but those two accidents aren't always fatal"(Voltaire 30). It shows that Cunegonde "should've" died, having her bowels ripped; but Voltaire is using improbably situation to satirize how such impossible things happen yet optimistic people still don't take too concern of it.
Besides, if the woman is basically saying that things will be better because of this and that, don't you think that's more like a christian's view for "all is for the best"?
Julio- I think Voltaire brings Cunegonde back into the story only to furthermore make fun of optimism. Both Cunegonde and Candide are not very intelligent, Candide's original problem evolved from her. Since Candide is a supporter of Pangloss's theory he has not choice to believe that everything that happens is always for the best, Cunegonde continuously proves this wrong, causing Candide anxiety and suffering.
Well, I'll answer your questions. Well, all of these saints are miracles workers. Our Lady of Atocha is a little pilgrim boy who makes many miracles. It is said that he helpes those in desperate need and have nowhere to go. My Lord Saint Anthony of Padua was a man who also made many miracles and he was a great orator. It is said that he made the most impossible of miracles such as keeping 30,000 people dry and safe after a terrible thunder storm. People don't even know how it happend. And for James of Compostella, well...I didnt find much that explained his personality and history. The only thing that I got was that he was a saint that went through many things and managed to survive all of the tortures that he went through. I think that you are right, and that Voltaire is satirzising religion. He shows that Cunegonde and James(the saint) are similar due to the fact that they have been through a lot of pain and torture;however they managed to stay alive. I think that the old lady is the mother of Saint Atocha. Because religion goes that the Saints mother sees the agony and pain of others. So she sees that pain as a sign of help. Her son the Saint of Atocha was like the helper who would do all of the good deeds or miracles. So the old woman could represent the the mother and the fact that she had a place and food for Candide shows the miracles that he goes through. The old woman knows about the pain that he has gone through so thats why she gives him food and she takes Candide to Cunegonde. But I don't see the satirism in the religion. Cunegonde surviving all of those horrors is an improbable situation but also a "miracle".
~Sarah I agree. In chapter 7, the improbably situation Voltaire created shows how Cunegonde should've died long ago, but suddenly she is alive, literally out of no where. It's like she escaped hell. Voltaire also make use of this improbably situation and satirizes optimism, because Cunegonde takes lightly of her past situation and what she went through, she doesn't really concern about herself very much even after nearing death.
I agree with Stephanie and Danny that Voltaire is criticizing Christianity. The old lady just could of said may God be with you, but Voltaire made her say may the several different Lords and Saints be with you. I think Volatire actually includes the names of the Saints and Lords to satirize Chrisitianity.By Voltaire taking 2-3 lines of the names and locations of Saints and Lords it shows he wants to make clear how religious the old woman ( Catholics) are and to satirize their faith and beliefs.
You know what Shelly! here you go! The situation I listen above can fall under warped logic. Warped logic that is being done by Candide. It is warped logic because Candide believes all is for the best. We were clearly shown how this went agianst the Catholic church's teachings through the confrontation between Pangloss and the Inquisitor. Now, when the old lady blesses Candide he doesn't choose to not except the blessing. By simply being amazed by this lady he didn't speak up for his beliefs. If pangloss can express himself to an Inquisitor, then why can't Candide express himself to a harmless old lady. At the very least, what does this say about Candide?
Another comment I have:I found it very funny how Voltaire refered to Cunegonde as the lady. I looked up the definition of lady and got: a women who refined, polite and well- spoken. The fact that this was who Cunegonde is funny.
I also think that The Saint of Padua could go with exaggeration because it is believed that he helped other people find their lost items. It is kind of wierd how Candide kept on running into people that were lost in his life. He saw no possible way how he could've been reunited with them.
Sarah--Voltaire is satirizing Christianity because at the time everyone believed if you were Christian you are rich and nice but the person who said that is against Christianity. Does the help at all?
Julio—Pangloss is not a liar because he heard that, that happened to Lady Cunegonde because the officer took her and disemboweled means that the sides are see able. She did get stabbed and you could see her inside. Think about it if you heard that someone was raped repeatedly and then stabbed they would still be alive and the army killed everyone why wouldn’t they kill her.
Julio- I agree, I think Pangloss misleads a lot of people. I am not saying that Cunegonde approves of optimism only that her reappearance resembles it.
Julio-- What does that have to do with me? I already stated my opinion before that this is an improbable statement. Scroll up, please.
Stephanie-- This may be true, but keep in mind Candide is a gentle man. Why would he go against an old lady? Not only that, but he amazed at the kindness that this lady shows towards him, leaving him speechless. Also, these words she speaks may just be words of kindess towards Candide. If someone saved my life from all the terrible things I've been through, I would've been speechless too.
Okay, so there's a lot going on here on discussing what Voltaire is satirizing. Just as Sarah, Samantha and other people said, I'd say Voltaire is satirizing optmism. After Candide was very down and there was no possible way to cheer him up, seeing Cunegonde once again brightened him. I agree with the idea that optimism is still being satirized. After all that Candide has been through, he runs into an old lady who helps him and shows him that all that happens is really for the best.
~Julio You were saying how Pangloss lied to Candide about the fact Cunegonde died. In chapter 7, it doesn't say anything about Pangloss decieveing Cunegonde. You're jumping ahead to chapter 8. Cunegonde says that Pangloss decieved her in chapter 8, after she saw how Pangloss was hanged, and how Candide was whipped. Pangloss only decieved Cunegonde through his petty philosophy of "all is for the best".
Shelly- I don't care what you would do! This is Candide's doing, not yours. (no offense though). Don't you think that if Voltaire intended Candide to be agianst these ideas he would've atleast stated that in some way? Despite weather or not Candide is a gentleman. Plus, Candide is stupid! I don't really see how he is a gentleman, and I don't think he even understads what he believes in seeing how there have been countless occasians where Panglosss has explained the theory to him.
Julio- that was chapter 7. Pangloss merely thought Cunegonde died. Wouldn't you if they were raped and disemboweld?
Jennifer- I think he satirizes Soctiety's ignorance like I said before. When Pangloss died, Candide (or society) got to think outside of the box and think for himself.
Maureen- But isn't optimism somewhat in there? I get your point and it makes sense but i kind of thought that optimism was still satired in this chapter because of the help Candide receives.
~Jennifer I think theres optimism in chapter 7 as well. Since Cunegonde was disemboweled and should've died, she is still so optimistic, and care less about the situation she went through.
What relevance does the old woman have in this plot? If she represents optimism then could Voltaire be leaving her nameless to emphasize that optimism is not important?
- Has anyone noticed that Cunegonde is just the female version on Candide? They are both Optimist who are not smart and they each survive, what should be fatal, tragedies only to endure worst.
Stephanie-- You bring up a good point that Voltaire would've put something to show that Candide would go against it. Candide was still speechless though, and I guess he let things just be the way they are? Maybe he was too weak to fight back, after seeing Pangloss get hanged for saying the philosophy. Also, I meant he was a gentle man (two seperate words), not a gentleman. Haha, sorry if it confused you.
Shelly- No one is saying that the only thing being satirized is optimism, it is just a crucial component that is important to understand to get the meaning of the other topics he is satirizing.
Just to make it clear I believe that for chapter 7 Voltaire is satirizing society's ignorance. Even though 300,000 people just died Candide is still hung up on the fact that Lady Cunegonde is so beautiful and cannot manage to think about anything else.
I think the old woman is Candide's savior because Candide is just released from being flogged and the old woman comes and helps Candide. The old woman helps Candide find Cunegonde.
Shelly- I think that was unnecessary, although it made me laugh. Despite this, she does have a point. We know optimism is being satarized, if you happen to find another way, congratulations! Pointing it out is great because not all of s may have gotten it, but we should be branching away form it to find other topics that are being satirzied.
I AGREE WITH SHELLY. The whole book is satirizing optimism! I think that Voltaire satirizes Society's ignorance. I didn't get to explain myself, so let me do it again:
Pangloss=Enlightenment thinkers Candide= society
Candide is very stupid and believes Pangloss. Once Pangloss dies, he starts to doubt and think that optimism is stupid. He gets exposed to thinking what he wants to think, instead of being hypnotized by this "all for the best" nonsense.
I agree with Jia. there is definitely optimism in chapter 7, for candide, becuase Cunegonde was alive. A few questions maybe someone can help me out with: 1. Who is the old lady who helps Candide? Is she ne of Cunegonde's freind who helps her get closer to Candide or is this all coinsidence? Or does she represent more than the old lady who aids Candide? 2. Who is the other lady that was in the house? and whose house is this, that is out of town?
Ooh! I think the old lady being a savior is some what funny. What has it come to if an old lady is now a savior? I'm just not sure what catagory this falls under. Julio's comment sparked this in my brain for some reason.
~Sarah I have a doubt about Voltaire satirizing society's ignorance because, you're saying that Candide is ignorant about what's happening, but it's only individuals, it isn't an entire society.
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ReplyDeleteDid the earthquake in chapter 5 have a name?
ReplyDeleteWas the Inquisitor a part of the Catholic Church?
Why did the officer of the Inquisition nod to the armed attendant?
In the book there wasn't really an actual name for this earthquake, but there is a name for the actual earthquake. The name is The Great Lisbon Earthquake And Tsunami. This occured on November 1, 1755. About 90,000 people were killd in Lisbon, a city of 230,000. It was estimated that the earthquake was an 8.6 earthquake. This was very deadly.
ReplyDelete(http://www.drgeorgepc.com/Tsunami1755Lisbon.html)
I believe that the inquisitor was part of the Catholic Church. Specifically, I think it was the Roman Catholic Church. I searched up inquisitor and then inquisition. I came upon information that says that the inquisition was a former special tribunal, engaged chiefly in combating and punishing heresy, of the Roman Catholic Church.
(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inquisition)
In chapter 5 I believe that Voltaire is satirizing the beliefs of the Christians and the concpet of optimism. Voltaire creates James death is used to represent the uselessness of christian beliefs and all that they stand for. James death also contradicts Pangloss's theory that the world is the best of all worlds. James is good while the sailor he attempts to save is evil, by the sailor surviving emphasizing that every situation does not end positively like Pangloss beleives.
ReplyDeleteDid anyone else have a different interpretation?
- Sarah
ReplyDeleteI think Voltaire is satirizing Pangloss because Pangloss is still optimistic even though there is destruction around him. As well as it is dangerous to believe in all is for the best because the Inquisitor finds that idea to be heresy. The Inquisitor states if all is for the best, then there could not be punishment. This shows Voltaire is satirizing the idea of optimism is twisted logic. When Pangloss tries to defend his point; he spews out warped logic which Voltaire is satirizing. Voltaire shows warped logic cannot be backed up because in the end there is nothing to back up at all.
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ReplyDelete"The devastating Lisbon earthquake occurred on November 1, 1755. More than 30,000 people, many of them in church to celebrate the feast of All Saints Day, were killed. Large parts of the city of Lisbon were destroyed." (http://www.pinkmonkey.com/booknotes/barrons/candide3.asp)
ReplyDeleteThere was a earthquake as Semir stated and Voltaire does uses it to satirize Pangloss's theory of optimism.
Sarah: i had the same interpretation except the part with Christianity. I don't understand how he goes at Christianity. Other than me not understanding the Christianity part, I had everything else.
Julio-
ReplyDeleteI agree that Voltaire is satirizing Pangloss, but doesn't Pangloss represent optimism?
and the warped logic that Pangloss uses to back up his point is ultimately non sense?
To answer a couple of Questions Jared Had:
ReplyDeleteYes, the Inquisitor is a part of the Catholic Church. He represents the Inquisition, which was the group of religious investigators who would call people into questioning if they suspected that they had a different belief of what the Church believed in. Pangloss was really stupid to actually tell the Inquisitor straight up about his belief.
I'm sure that the inquisitor's armed attendant was well aware of Pangloss as well. I'm not sure about why the Inquisitor nodded his head, but I believe that the armed attendant was considering taking Pangloss somewhere where they would question him more.
One Question that I do have is how come James didn't get a ridiculious name like the rest of the Characters from Candide? Is it possible that Voltaire had a specific role for James?
Kevin-
ReplyDeleteI'm not exactly sure my point with the Christianity either now that I reconsider it.
How was the earthquake used to satirize optimism?
-Sarah
ReplyDeleteThe earthquake is kind of like the 7 year war and both of these events killed many people. But Pangloss is still optimistic about these events. Voltaire uses the earthquake to show how Candide has to go through a journey which disproves Leibniz idea of optimism
Sarah
ReplyDeleteYes Pangloss is talking about non-sense things. Remember in this book, Voltaire has a purpose to satirize Leibniz idea of optimism. Leibniz idea of optimism is represented through Pangloss. So, Voltaire in this chapter is saying optimism is warped logic and there is nothing to back up "all is for the best" because there is always destruction in this world whether we want it or not.
Julio-
ReplyDeleteThat makes a lot of sense! thank you.
Wilson-
ReplyDeleteI think that the role of James was to portray Leibniz theory wrong. The character James has such a short role, it could be that Voltaire uses his life span to express that the enlightenment ideas should die quickly as well.
I had a few questions for chapter 5:
ReplyDelete1.When pangloss is talking to the Inquisitor, why does he respond by telling him that he does not beleibve in original sin, in this case what is original sin? Is it the same as a sin, or a sin of going against church teachings since originally people went against church teachings?
2.Why did the sailor say that he walked on the crucifix four times? I researched the crucifix and it is an image of a cross with Jesus on it. Is he saying that he went through "crucifiction" , or harsh punishment just like the one as Jesus'?
3.Why did the sailor throw James out the boa even after saving his life? Why did he strike him in the first part?
I think that this sailor is greedy and selfish because evn after the earthquake in Lisbon he is gettin drunk, trying to find money and women.
4.Is universal reasoning the same as common sense and/or human reasoning?
with the nod of the inquisitor to his armed assistant, what does that signify?
ReplyDeletewith the help of wilson's comment, I guess it is safe to say that its curtains for Pangloss.
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ReplyDeleteWait isn't Batavia Passau, Germany?
ReplyDeletethat is what i researched.
I disagree- I think the sailor was taking advantage of the circumstance. His intentions were not good, as like Juan said, he rummaged around in the remains for money to get drunk and pay someone to have sex with.
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ReplyDeleteSarah -
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. The sailors intentions are bad. Also, he states he will get something out of this shipwreck. This shows the sailor does not care about the dead people and only cares about what he can get out of the situation he is in. He is a very selfish man.
Wilson -
ReplyDeleteRead ahead to chapter 6. In chapter 6, Pangloss is arrested because he spoke. I think when the Inquisitor nods his head to the armed attendant, it means they are going to arrest Pangloss because of heresy since Pangloss talked about optimism which went against christian ideas.
was candide, and pangloss trapped in the ruins?
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ReplyDeleteHere are some questions I have over chapter 5:
ReplyDeleteWhy did Pangloss let the Anabaptist die?
Why did the sailor just do all those actions after the earthquake happened?
What was the earthquake named?
Why did Voltaire put, “A little man in black”?
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ReplyDeleteDanny-
ReplyDeleteVoltaire is satirizing how a small man has so much power in society. The little man is the Inquisitor and if he catches someone committing heresy, then he has the power to take that person and torture him until that person believes in christianity.
Danny- I can't answer all your question but i think Voltaire put a little man in black to show that the people of the church all small in size and insignificant yet big in power but its just a guess and thought i'm not so sure
ReplyDeleteJulio
ReplyDeleteI disagree with your statement about why they let James die. James in Christianity was one of twelve men that promoted the religion its self. I though Voltaire was satirizing the fact that religion was some what annoying and not needed. Letting James die in the book, means that Religion should be rejected just like the sailors did with his life.
Julio: You have a point with Batavia as a pirate ship but I had also researched that it was a city in Indonesia that was taken over by the French. The Batavia ship was wrecked way before the earthquake and he might not have even been around during the time the actual one was gone. He had also gone to Japan a few times which is closer to Indonesia than Portugal. Also he does say he wants something out of this (Voltaire 26), but I believe he actually just wants the money clearly to forget about what has just happened and make believe it was just there to be there. I also doubt the sailor would have really risked his life just to get something be believes is earned. The only optimistic people in this book were Candide and Pangloss, maybe a little of James, but everyone else is a little pessimistic. Although your idea fits in Julio, it might just be another satire.
ReplyDeleteSince when did Julio become the teacher? :P
ReplyDeletecorrection to my last comment, taken over by the dutch*
ReplyDeleteJames:
ReplyDeleteBy letting James die in the book, it does show religion is rejected. This shows evil triumphs over those that believe in the well being of others. Voltaire is satirizing how evil wins in the end and there is nothing good or optimistic about this world.
Jeffrey -
ReplyDeleteI got the same thing as you in the beginning when I was researching about Batavia.
Julio
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point. Thanks Julio :D
By the way then I first read "By letting James die" I freaked out! Then I realized. :)
Jeffrey-
ReplyDeleteWhat does it mean when the sailor said he "walked the crucifix"?
In chapter 5, does Voltaire purposely use Batavia as the name of the country? I found that Batavia was also a ship's name that goes with the context of the book, that's why.
ReplyDeleteWhy was the Inquistor dining with Pangloss and Candide with the citizens?
Did the Inquisitor have high power in the Church because Voltaire describes him as "a little man in black"? (Voltaire 30)
Jeffery -
ReplyDeleteThe reason why there is a city called Batavia in Indonesia because Batavia the ship crashed in Indonesia. When he explains he "walked the crucifix" he means he walked the plank. It's explained as crucifix because the plank is perpendicular to the edge of the ship forming a cross. Crashing in Indonesia probably let him to sail around Asia explaining why he was thrown overboard four times. He is explaining to Pangloss that he is above natural reason in surviving all of those incidents.
Also, Japan is probably the most recognizable place near Indonesia at the time and has no real significance.
ReplyDeleteSources: http://asianhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/ozs_batavia_shipwreck_slaughter
Wow! Again, you guys are awesome. I love that Julio and Jeffrey, who are normally quiet in class, have voiced so many ideas. Equally, Sarah has some great points.
ReplyDeleteJuan's comments are interesting but hard. What is the concept of original sin? Why can't you have free will according to Pangloss? Why is it heresy to say that we have a predestination?
This chapter definitely satirizes the Catholic church and,of course, optimism.
I am aware that this section is for chapter five, however I have one concern in chapter seven. In chapter seven, why does Cunegonde say getting raped and disemboweled were two incidents that happened to her, yet she says they are not fatal. When you get your organs taken out, doesn't it mean you should be dying within sometime soon?
ReplyDeleteJanet-
ReplyDeleteYou are right, realistically disembowelment would be fatal. This could possibly be a form of warped logic that Voltaire is using.
Sarah I agree with you. In this chapter that could be criticizing optimism. It's criticizing optimism because all this happened to her and she's seems to be calm about it. If this would have happened to another person they would have been traumatized.
ReplyDeleteJanet- I agree with Sarah about disembowelment would be realistically serious, so it can be part of the category warped logic. It can also be understatement because Cunegonde made it sound like it wasn't fatal, when normally it will be a serious situation.
ReplyDeleteSarah and Sally-- I think it is an improbable situation, and a little bit of exaggeration. How can someone live after having their insides ripped out? Plus, it was so long ago that they didn't have the medical resources like we have. As for exaggeration, I think its getting pretty rediculous that her and Candide survived so much.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think that it's kind of funny that Candide is finally starting to question optimism once Pangloss is gone. What do you think Voltaire is trying to say?
Guys I agree with Sarah, but I also think it's like improbable situation or exaggeration, possibly understatement? Like oh I only got my heart taken out no big deal. I don't know. Yeah I was also confused about that. Voltaire is maybe satirizing it though? I was kind of thinking that he was like satirizing optimism? Like since Pangloss died he's satirizing it through Cunegonde. I actually didn't stop reading I was interested but I thought it was funny when he said it was Cunegonde.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of chapter 7, have any of you noticed the phrase: "...related in a perfectly natural manner everything he had experienced since his parting..."?
ReplyDeleteFor the word "relate", is this word describing about his "perfectly natural manner" or about relating his experience with Cunegonde?
There's also the phrase "devoured her with his eyes".Isn't strange that Candide can still think about "that" while they are talking about their misfortune? This phrase just don't go with the talk of misfortune!
Maureen- That's what I was thinking like he's still being optimistic but now it's just through different characters.
ReplyDeleteSamantha, I agree with you when you said the chapter was interesting. I couldn't stop reading I had to keep going.
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ReplyDeleteMaureen and Sally-
ReplyDeleteI also agree that Cunegonde surviving after disembowelment is an improbable situation. In a twisted way Cunegonde is the source of Candide's faith, as Candide is reunited with her he becomes hopeful again.
Sally I thought that phrase "devoured her with his eyes" was strange also!
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ReplyDeleteSally- Well, I know they are talking about misfotunes and all, but you need to keep in mind that the two lovers haven't seen each other in a long time. He also was convinced that everything was a dream, so if I were him I would take advantage of seeing Cunegonde.
ReplyDeleteYour first quote was also rather interesting. I agree that he is relating his perfect experience with Cunegonde. It was perfect for him, and expiremental physics IS natural...
Samantha-- I disagree. I think Pangloss might have been influencing Candide a little TOO much. Candide is very stupid and gullible so Pangloss' teachings made a lot of sense to him. When he died, Candide finally got to think for himself and outside of his little optimistic box. He started to doubt what he's been learning all his life (there was a lot of it in Ch. 6 too).
Maureen- Yeah, I agree with you when you say that Candide is very stupid/gullible. Well I kind of read on to the next chapter when Cunegonde tells Candide her story, and the events that she say occured don't seem like believable at all; which is probably how Voltaire wanted it and to show Candide's naive.
ReplyDeleteIM BEING A LEADER AND STARTING A CHAPTER 7 DISCUSSION
ReplyDeleteIm not sure what Voltaire is satirizing in chapter 7. Is it christianity? On page 29 he names all these people like Lady of Atocha and My Lord Saint Anthony of Padua and My Lord Saint James of Compostella. I thought maybe it was christianity, but I can use some opinions on this. Help me please!!!!!
Spoiler!!!
ReplyDeleteHadeel, we've been talking about chapter 7 for a while sorry to burst your bubble :D
I think it might be society's ignorance here. Candide represents society and once the enlightenment thinkers aren't there to think for them, they start to get confused and lose hope in everything.
I agree with Maureen. It was established by Voltaire in the earlier chapters that Pangloss is a bit "slimy" and made out to be more than he is worth. Without Pangloss hovering by Candide's side, Candide is not constantly reminded that the world "is the best of all worlds" and is starting to think other wise. Voltaire uses a true event in history ( the earthquake on November 1, 1755—All Saints’ Day) to create a turning point for the enlightenment ideas of optimism.
ReplyDeleteMaureen-
ReplyDeleteOh I didnt know sorry :(
You bring up a good point I would have never thought of that.Thanks xD
Any other suggestions????
ReplyDelete- Hadeely
ReplyDeleteYou are entirely right...Voltaire is making reference to these saints to justify his
criticism on Christianity. Another thing you should further anaylize is Voltaire's perception on the idea of optimism. He gestures this ideal concept by introducing the reader of this anonymous lady who cares for Candide, and also recovered Cunegonde. This idea centers the meaning of all is for the best, and everything happens for a reason. I guess you can say it was destiny that this two lovers reunited.
Taylor- I doubt he's criticizing Christianity. What part about it is he satirizing? That old christian ladies help people in need?
ReplyDeleteWait!
ReplyDeleteIf Cunegonde’s organs were taken out, why is she still alive? This shows that something else happened. She might have another side of the story than what Pangloss said to Candide.
Pangloss "saw" what ever happened to Lady Cunegonde. It must have been the same as in chapter five when he said that the harbor was meant for the Anabaptist to die in it, Pangloss must have just ran away without helping on the destructing of the castle.
Janet- Cunegonde never really did say what really happened. If she did why is she still alive talking to Candide? Maybe reading chapter eight will help us understand what happened to everyone.
I also agree with Maureen on her comment.
Great point sarah..
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ReplyDeleteWow, I never thought about November one (All Saints Day). Thanks!
ReplyDeleteso you can basically say the earthquake symbolizes a new beginning so to speak...?
ReplyDelete-Taylor
ReplyDeleteKnowing now how Voltaire writes Im gooing to keep in mind that "all is for the best". Plus I can't forget that he always brings back the bad characters anytime he gets the chance to. So I agree with you it was ddestiny that these two lovebirds met once again.
Taylor I don't understand your question.
ReplyDeleteDanny-- She said it was all true, Voltaire was just making a joke. It's improbable situation, so satirize optimism.
ReplyDeleteHadeel! This is already a chapter 7 discussion!
ReplyDeleteI don't really think Voltaire is satarizing christianity in this chapter, but that's how I view it. The reason why is because the old lady lists they lovely spanish catholic saints, but Candide recieves amazing treatment after she said it. Nothing bad happened to him after. As a matter of fact, he remet the love of his life! What else can be better for him?
Sally--I think the devouring part of the chapter was just an exaggeration. Candide was probably really into Cunegonde's side of the story. As Maureen said, Candide and Cunegonde have been through so much, and haven't seen eachother for so long. As lovers, they probably thought of eachother throughout the whole time period. Candide obeys Cunegonde and is extremely interested to hear her story. I mean after all, he thought she was dead all along! I'm probably not correct, but this is the view from my side. As for the relating part of the chapter, Candide is relating his tragic, terrible story of misfortune to the natural ways of the world. Everything happens for the best of all reasons. As we should all know by now, all is for the best!
Janet-- I totally agree with Maureen that Cunegonde's non fatal injury is an improbable statement. It is obviously a lie that someone can't die from being sliced open and their organs come splurting out. It's a lie, but with a hint of truth. Cunegonde could really be injured or just scarred with the memory. Also, you say that Cunegonde should be dying sometime soon, but keep in mind: this woman is still terribly injured! "She was supporting with difficulty a trembling woman..." (Candide 33)
The poor thing is probably still weak and terrified.
-Maureen
ReplyDeletethere must be an ideal reason why volatire makes reference to the saints..right..unless im wrong?
Maureen-
ReplyDeleteWhat I meant by the first quote was that Candide was retelling his whole bad experiences since he left the Baron's castle. Normally, people would have trouble retelling their terrible experiences; instead, he was saying it in a "natural" manner. It was similar to Cunegonde's manner on retelling about her being disembowled and raped.
Natural- normal manner
I think optimism is going to continue through the whole book though. Like cause even though they are both in like some pretty redicoulus situations, they don't completely abandon the optimism that they had when Pangloss was still alive.
ReplyDeleteHadeel-
ReplyDeleteLike Taylor said, Candide and Cunegonde's encounter could be labeled as destiny. At the time, destiny went against the Christian beliefs. No one in the Catholic Church's opinion had a set future. I believe Voltaire is using this scene to satirize Christianity.
I just love how everyone's referring to Maureen. You're honored, Maureen!
ReplyDeletewait Im confused. Can somebody clarify this for me please:Is christianity satirized in chapter 7 or is it society's ignorance?
ReplyDeleteSally- Oh! That makes way more sense than mine. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteTaylor- I don't really see anything bad about what he said, though. That's why I don't think he's satirizing. Also, Voltaire wasn't making the point that all is for the best. He's saying that its stupid! (I agree)
Cunegonde surviving the disembowlment could be critiism of the enlightenment. He was against the enlightenment, so you have to remember that the fact it was a huge turning point and affective part of history got him angry. This is most likely where most of his satire comes from. Now, the fact that Cunegonde surivived the disembowlment could be satirizing enlightenment is realistic seeing how she believed "all is for the best". By believing in this many people "bought into" the enlightenment. Volatire thought that this wasn't true, but he knew that by believing in these theories many people thought they were correct. Just as in Galileo those who followed the Catholic church's teachings and not science found themselves to be trully right, and to turn out with the most power.
ReplyDeleteI also found there was criticism towards Christianity. Voltaire named the saints: Lady of Antocha, Anthony of Padua and James of Compostela. The story of the Lady of Antocha is actually very interesting. In 711, the Moors captured Granada. They took control over the Catholics and imprisoned them. over time there were the Moors lessened the ways of the Catholics retrieving food and water. The women prayed to The lady of Antocha, who's statue had a baby in her arms. After some time had passed, a 12 year old boy was spotted over and over again. Despite his appearance of a pilgrim, it was soon believed that he was Antocha's son. The women and men all prayed and expressed their gratitude toward the Lady. Saint anthony is the Catholic saint of lost items, the pooor, and travelers. By naming these saints, Voltaire is saying that their stories and myths are promoted by the Catholic church. When you actually read these stories you can see how improbable the situations are in them.
Shelly- Well we don't know the other side of the story on ever happened to Cunegonde, it might be different from what Pangloss says.
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ReplyDeleteShelly- You're awsome, too.
ReplyDeleteHadeel- I don't think it's being satirized in chapter 7. An old christian woman helps Candide and reunites him with his lover. How is that satirizing? There's nothing negative intended... or I'm just reading it wrong...
To tell you the truth guys, I really don't think this chapter has anything to do with religion. The only section that speaks of anything related to relgion is the part where the old woman speaks those few names. I don't see how that satirizes christianity at all.
ReplyDeleteI noticed I'm the only guy in the blog talking. I find that funny. :]
ReplyDelete-maureen
ReplyDeleteOk I sorta better understand now(sorta)!
Sorry forgot to site!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.infantjesus.us/atocha_en.html
-this is where I got the information on Lady of Antocha
http://www.saintanthonyofpadua.net/
-this was for saint anthony
http://www.saintjacquesinfo.eu/legend.htm
-this was for saint James, though it didn't help much and I couldn't find much on him.
this blog helps a lot but it is also kind of confusing because now i'm thinking different things. i agree with stephanie and hadeel. it is kind of satirizing christianity because when you do reasech the saints you find out information that ties up to the story.
ReplyDeleteStephanie-- Voltaire wasn't necassarily against the enlightenment. He was part of it-- he was merely criticizing. And christianity- Where's the negativity? I know he mentions it, but I have failed to notice anything bad about the situation.
ReplyDeleteI figured because Voltaire has made fun of the catholic church in the previous chapter,that he might be making fun of their beliefs.
ReplyDeleteShelly- I think it is satirizing religion. Who talks about saints taking care of you?! I find that more of idol worship, I thought that God took care of you instead of someone else (saint).
ReplyDeleteDanny-- We don't know Cunegonde's story because it's the next chapter! We're going to be like Candide, devouring her story and figuring out what happened. (Haha, bad humor)
ReplyDeleteI'm actually kind of confused with where this old woman comes from.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it odd how every encounter Candide has with a stranger they are overly generous and will to help him.
Could this mean something?
I AGREE WITH SHELLY!! Just because he mentions things about christianity doesn't mean he's satirizing it.
ReplyDeleteNot in this chapter, anyway.
Hadeel- yeah i am convinced he is satirizing it again in ch. 7.
ReplyDeleteDanny-- But what is he satirizing about it? You guys keep saying christianity, but there's no proof! The names don't explain anything!!
ReplyDeletei agree with Samantha. The book is criticizing Leibniz's idea throughout about optimism, which we learned from Ms.Karvunis. How is he criticizing optimism though?
ReplyDeleteMy questions on chapter seven:
ReplyDeleteWhy does the old woman help Candide meet with Cunegonde?
Why does Cunegonde cry for the good Anabaptist and Pangloss.
How does she know the the Anabaptist died? (very strange!)
~Taylor
ReplyDeleteI never thought of it that way; the earthquake symbolizing a new beginning in the story. It makes sense when you think about how Pangloss died, and how Candide is not thinking much about the concept of "all if for the best".
For chapter seven, the fact that Cunegonde lived through a "must likely death" situation proves Voltaire is using an improbably situation. Also the reaction of Cunegonde not caring and worrying the fact she almost died, shows optimism. At first, I thought Voltaire will end the satizing of optimism, because of the lost of Pangloss, but I am guessing not.
When I thought about how Candide might carry out Pangloss's teaching, I figured the story might go back to optimism.
In chapter 7, Voltaire is mostly using exaggeration, improbable situation, and maybe a little understatement. When Cunegonde said that her accidents weren't fatal, would that be an understatement? I figured because she is taking lightly of her situation of being disemboweled and living from it. I figure it extremely impossible for her to live without her bowels. Voltaire probably created it like this to make fun of how impossible things can become, and how the optimistic people that learned from Pangloss would not even care of these big situations because they believe all is for the best.
Shelly-
ReplyDeleteI think it satirizes christianity because of the back story of the saints and how it in no way is what is happening in the characters' lives. Despite the fact that they believe in these saints and christianity should mean that they arw gaining something out of this faith. In actuality, these saints aren't living up to their names, or what it is people believe in them for.
*I mean to say willing in my previous post
ReplyDeleteDanny-- I'd really like to know how this is satirizing religion. Just because something that is related to a main topic doesn't mean it's being satirized. I don't see anything funny about the old lady blessing Candide. Like I said before to Hadeel, after she said those words Candide remeets the love of his life, he heals, and regains his health. What's so bad about it? Is it humorous that a man is being blessed? I thought it was natural for religious people to say that.
ReplyDeletePlus, saints always do good. That's why they're saints and why people pray to them and follow them.
ReplyDeleteShelly - In chapter 7, the second paragraph clearly states Voltaire is satirizing religion. Candide tries to kiss the old woman's hand because the old woman was very generous to Candide by helping him, but the old woman tells Candide it is not my hand you should kiss. I think the old woman is referring to Christ and that he should be grateful Christ exists.Voltaire is satirizing how some people may be deceitful because the old woman kind of bribes Candide into accepting Christianity.
ReplyDeleteMaureen: November One All Saints Day
ReplyDeleteThen the earthquake.
Voltaire- Hahaha
So what does this chapter really satirizes?
ReplyDeleteSarah- The Old women was not really the true benefactor of Candide in this chapter. It was Cunegonde. I think the Old Women was just following orders.
Thanks guys Im actually getting it now....maureen and shelly thanks a lot once again :)
ReplyDeleteIt's funny me and shelly against stephanie and danny
ReplyDelete-sarah
ReplyDeleteMaybe Candide demands for guidence especailly since he is so simple minded, and could care less(i assume) Thats a great point though...maybe we should both anaylize further!!
This may be contradicting Candide a little. Remember in another chapter he said that the rich men would help him or whatever? This woman seems like a not so wealthy women because she brings him to her hovel which is: 1. a small, very humble dwelling house; a wretched hut.
ReplyDelete2. any dirty, disorganized dwelling.
3. an open shed, as for sheltering cattle or tools. (www.dictionary.com)
It seems the old woman helps him more than a rich person has that he's had a convo. with. Like those men that beat him.
I agreed with Shelly about chapter 7 not having to do much with religion because chapter 7 is mostly about how Candide is healing by the help of the old woman. Then later on he meets Lady Cunegonde again which is kind of weird because like what Maureen said how can someone live if they got their insides ripped out?
ReplyDeleteJulio-
ReplyDeleteThat is a great point and I agree entirely.
-Sally
ReplyDeletewhat do you mean by the old woman not being the true benefactor?
[continuing previous post-] and she helps him by taking care of him and the ointment and the food and the water etc. also by bringing him and Cunegonde together
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAgreed Maureen!
ReplyDeleteJulio-- I DON'T THINK SO. The reason why the old lady doesn't let Candide kiss her hand is because he shouldn't be kissing hers. This keeps us wondering why, but if you read on into the story we find out Cunegonde has sent the old lady to help Candide.
Shelly: chapter three where the orator's wife was blessing Candide for his opinion that he believes that the Pope isn't the Anti-Christ, as the same with her.
ReplyDeleteThats the humor.
ReplyDeleteDanny-- THIS IS CHAPTER 7.
ReplyDeleteI read my name.
ReplyDeleteJulio- I don't see any bribing. She isn't imposing Christianity on him in the chapter. She just helps Candide and happens to be religous.
ReplyDeleteShelly- I'm connecting points how it may not seem that much of a humor but it is.
ReplyDeleteI still don't think religion is being satirized.
ReplyDeleteOk
ReplyDeleteThe isolated house was really grand with the ponds and garden...etc Cunegonde was dressed in jeweleries. The Old Women was living in a hovel.
ReplyDeleteWhat I think:
ReplyDeletePangloss is a liar! In chapter 4; Pangloss tells Candide that Cunegonde is disemboweled by the Prussians basically she is ripped apart. In chapter 7, Candide discovers Cunegonde is alive. This shows Pangloss lied to Candide about Cunegonde and she is still alive.
Questions:
Why did Voltaire want Cunegonde back into the plot?
Danny-- It's still not a main topic that Voltaire is satirizing in this chapter. I do not see any element of satire towards religion. There's no exaggeration, warped reasoning, ridiculous name, improbable statement or an understatement. Nothing. Nada.
ReplyDeleteThat is what I said Julio.
ReplyDeletehmmm i'm confused! is she poor? or regular? or rich?
ReplyDeleteJulio i agree with your comment and it was very helpful. thank you x]
ReplyDeleteI found this quote said by Voltaire
ReplyDelete“For seventeen hundred years the Christian sect has done nothing but harm”
“Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd, and bloody religion that has ever infected the world”
I have not exactly pinpointed how exactly Voltaire is satirizing Christianity, but he definitely is against it and hinting these ideas throughout Candide.
You two are going down! Let's get them Danny!
ReplyDeleteShelly just because it didn;t make you laugh doesn't mean it's not satire, which it is! What's funny about it is that she says for the saints to be with him, and he thinks all is for the best which actually goes against the church. That's the forst part. The second part is that Candide has been through all these hardships and yet despite it some old lady is just going to tell him oh I hope these saints help you? Yeha ok that's really going to help. Which is the point I think Voltaire was trying to make.
Can we all make things clear here!!..Then if Volatire is not criticizing Christianity nor religion as a whole..then what is he imposing...I'm a bit confused
ReplyDeleteSamantha who are you refering to?
ReplyDeleteYes, Stephanie agrees with me!
ReplyDeleteTaylor that's kind of what we're debating.
ReplyDelete~Julio
ReplyDeletePangloss didn't really lie, in chapter 7, Cunegonde says "He's right, but those two accidents aren't always fatal"(Voltaire 30).
It shows that Cunegonde "should've" died, having her bowels ripped; but Voltaire is using improbably situation to satirize how such impossible things happen yet optimistic people still don't take too concern of it.
Jia Wen Cao-
ReplyDeleteWhat is Voltaire satirizing by using this improbable situation?
Stephanie-- I will emmphsize this again. I want to see cites of atleast on of the elements of satire.
ReplyDeleteExaggeration
Ridiculous names
Understatements
Improbable situation
Warped logic
Besides, if the woman is basically saying that things will be better because of this and that, don't you think that's more like a christian's view for "all is for the best"?
Julio-
ReplyDeleteI think Voltaire brings Cunegonde back into the story only to furthermore make fun of optimism. Both Cunegonde and Candide are not very intelligent, Candide's original problem evolved from her. Since Candide is a supporter of Pangloss's theory he has not choice to believe that everything that happens is always for the best, Cunegonde continuously proves this wrong, causing Candide anxiety and suffering.
Maureen's keyboard stopped working!
ReplyDeleteMaureen McCarthy said...
Julio- Pangloss never lied about Cunegonde. She said so herself on page 33.
"'He (Pangloss) was right'"
-Sarah
ReplyDeleteNICE :)
Maureen-
ReplyDeleteSorry I did not read up to chapter 8.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering, was there any ridiculous names? I found none but if you have found any, could you please list them? Thank you ahead of time.
ReplyDeleteThanks Taylor (:
ReplyDeleteJulio, you probably have a diffrent book. But it's the same as what Jia Wen said.
ReplyDeleteMona: Just wrote Old woman and Trembling woman.
ReplyDelete-Hadeel
ReplyDeleteWell, I'll answer your questions. Well, all of these saints are miracles workers. Our Lady of Atocha is a little pilgrim boy who makes many miracles. It is said that he helpes those in desperate need and have nowhere to go. My Lord Saint Anthony of Padua was a man who also made many miracles and he was a great orator. It is said that he made the most impossible of miracles such as keeping 30,000 people dry and safe after a terrible thunder storm. People don't even know how it happend. And for James of Compostella, well...I didnt find much that explained his personality and history. The only thing that I got was that he was a saint that went through many things and managed to survive all of the tortures that he went through. I think that you are right, and that Voltaire is satirzising religion. He shows that Cunegonde and James(the saint) are similar due to the fact that they have been through a lot of pain and torture;however they managed to stay alive. I think that the old lady is the mother of Saint Atocha. Because religion goes that the Saints mother sees the agony and pain of others. So she sees that pain as a sign of help. Her son the Saint of Atocha was like the helper who would do all of the good deeds or miracles. So the old woman could represent the the mother and the fact that she had a place and food for Candide shows the miracles that he goes through. The old woman knows about the pain that he has gone through so thats why she gives him food and she takes Candide to Cunegonde. But I don't see the satirism in the religion. Cunegonde surviving all of those horrors is an improbable situation but also a "miracle".
~Sarah
ReplyDeleteI agree. In chapter 7, the improbably situation Voltaire created shows how Cunegonde should've died long ago, but suddenly she is alive, literally out of no where. It's like she escaped hell. Voltaire also make use of this improbably situation and satirizes optimism, because Cunegonde takes lightly of her past situation and what she went through, she doesn't really concern about herself very much even after nearing death.
Danny- I don't think it is a ridiculous name though.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Stephanie and Danny that Voltaire is criticizing Christianity. The old lady just could of said may God be with you, but Voltaire made her say may the several different Lords and Saints be with you. I think Volatire actually includes the names of the Saints and Lords to satirize Chrisitianity.By Voltaire taking 2-3 lines of the names and locations of Saints and Lords it shows he wants to make clear how religious the old woman ( Catholics) are and to satirize their faith and beliefs.
ReplyDeleteJia-
ReplyDeleteIt is almost as if Cunegonde resembles optimism in that it came out of no where with no logical reasoning to back it up.
You know what Shelly! here you go!
ReplyDeleteThe situation I listen above can fall under warped logic. Warped logic that is being done by Candide. It is warped logic because Candide believes all is for the best. We were clearly shown how this went agianst the Catholic church's teachings through the confrontation between Pangloss and the Inquisitor. Now, when the old lady blesses Candide he doesn't choose to not except the blessing. By simply being amazed by this lady he didn't speak up for his beliefs. If pangloss can express himself to an Inquisitor, then why can't Candide express himself to a harmless old lady. At the very least, what does this say about Candide?
Another comment I have:I found it very funny how Voltaire refered to Cunegonde as the lady. I looked up the definition of lady and got: a women who refined, polite and well- spoken. The fact that this was who Cunegonde is funny.
Ken- Prove me wrong.
ReplyDeleteShelly-
ReplyDeleteCan you still be alive if you are disemboweled during a war that is going on?
I also think that The Saint of Padua could go with exaggeration because it is believed that he helped other people find their lost items. It is kind of wierd how Candide kept on running into people that were lost in his life. He saw no possible way how he could've been reunited with them.
ReplyDeleteThis post just went from 55 comments to 150.
ReplyDeleteEpic. Win.
Sarah-
ReplyDeletePangloss deceived Cunegonde (Voltaire 33).
I do not think she approves of optimism or that she is a pupil of Pangloss.
Sarah--Voltaire is satirizing Christianity because at the time everyone believed if you were Christian you are rich and nice but the person who said that is against Christianity. Does the help at all?
ReplyDeleteJulio—Pangloss is not a liar because he heard that, that happened to Lady Cunegonde because the officer took her and disemboweled means that the sides are see able. She did get stabbed and you could see her inside. Think about it if you heard that someone was raped repeatedly and then stabbed they would still be alive and the army killed everyone why wouldn’t they kill her.
I meant listed in my last comment.*
ReplyDeleteI'M BACK!!
ReplyDeleteWhoever invented sticky keys is a total jerk. That's like putting an "unlock" button on handcuffs.
Shadey, I think that could be more of improbable situation.
ReplyDeleteHahaha Maureen that's good!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJulio-
ReplyDeleteI agree, I think Pangloss misleads a lot of people.
I am not saying that Cunegonde approves of optimism only that her reappearance resembles it.
Julio-- What does that have to do with me? I already stated my opinion before that this is an improbable statement. Scroll up, please.
ReplyDeleteStephanie-- This may be true, but keep in mind Candide is a gentle man. Why would he go against an old lady? Not only that, but he amazed at the kindness that this lady shows towards him, leaving him speechless. Also, these words she speaks may just be words of kindess towards Candide. If someone saved my life from all the terrible things I've been through, I would've been speechless too.
what could be an improbable situation?
ReplyDeleteJaafar-
ReplyDeleteYes that does help.
How does Voltaire prove that all Christians are nice and rich wrong in chapter 7 though?
Julio-
ReplyDelete"Your belly wasn't split open, as Pangloss the philosopher assured me?"
"He was right," said the fair Cunegonde, "but those two accidents aren't always fatal."
Voltaire 33
Okay, so there's a lot going on here on discussing what Voltaire is satirizing. Just as Sarah, Samantha and other people said, I'd say Voltaire is satirizing optmism. After Candide was very down and there was no possible way to cheer him up, seeing Cunegonde once again brightened him. I agree with the idea that optimism is still being satirized. After all that Candide has been through, he runs into an old lady who helps him and shows him that all that happens is really for the best.
ReplyDeleteShadeyrack-
ReplyDeleteAn improbable situation would be Cunegonde surviving after disembowelment, this could never actually happen.
~Julio
ReplyDeleteYou were saying how Pangloss lied to Candide about the fact Cunegonde died. In chapter 7, it doesn't say anything about Pangloss decieveing Cunegonde. You're jumping ahead to chapter 8. Cunegonde says that Pangloss decieved her in chapter 8, after she saw how Pangloss was hanged, and how Candide was whipped. Pangloss only decieved Cunegonde through his petty philosophy of "all is for the best".
Shelly-
ReplyDeleteI don't care what you would do! This is Candide's doing, not yours. (no offense though). Don't you think that if Voltaire intended Candide to be agianst these ideas he would've atleast stated that in some way? Despite weather or not Candide is a gentleman. Plus, Candide is stupid! I don't really see how he is a gentleman, and I don't think he even understads what he believes in seeing how there have been countless occasians where Panglosss has explained the theory to him.
I see. So what would be the exaggeration?
ReplyDeleteThe exaggeration is the fact that Cunegonde is strong enough, or that anyone is strong enough, to live through disembowlment.
ReplyDeleteJia Wen Cao-
ReplyDeleteThanks for clearing that up!
what? But I thought that that was an improbable situation?
ReplyDeleteI find it to be both.
ReplyDeleteJulio- that was chapter 7. Pangloss merely thought Cunegonde died. Wouldn't you if they were raped and disemboweld?
ReplyDeleteJennifer- I think he satirizes Soctiety's ignorance like I said before. When Pangloss died, Candide (or society) got to think outside of the box and think for himself.
Stephanie-
ReplyDeleteI agree with you.
A understatement would be Cunegonde telling Candide that being disemboweled is not fatal (Voltaire 30).
Maureen-
ReplyDeleteBut isn't optimism somewhat in there? I get your point and it makes sense but i kind of thought that optimism was still satired in this chapter because of the help Candide receives.
Julio I agree with you also. I also believe that this situation may satisfy many concepts of satire, which would make it very satirical.
ReplyDeleteGUYS, WE SHOULD ALL UNDERSTAND THAT THE WHOLE BOOK IS OBVIOUSLY SATIRIZING OPTIMISM.
ReplyDeleteFOR THE PAST FEW DAYS, THAT IS WHAT MS. KARVUNIS SAID REPETIVELY.
THE ONLY THING THAT REMAINS IN OUR HEADS IS:
"IS VOLTAIRE SATIRIZING SOMETHING ELSE?"
KEEP IN MIND, VOLTAIRE CAN JUST BE SATARIZING OPTIMISM AND THAT'S IT!
BUT FOR THOSE WHO KEEP SAYING THAT OPTIMISM IS SOMETHING VOLTAIRE IS SATIRIZING.
WE. KNOW.
~Jennifer
ReplyDeleteI think theres optimism in chapter 7 as well. Since Cunegonde was disemboweled and should've died, she is still so optimistic, and care less about the situation she went through.
Shelly- Not the whole thing is satirizing optimism, but most of it is. They also satirize religion and war.
ReplyDeleteWhat relevance does the old woman have in this plot? If she represents optimism then could Voltaire be leaving her nameless to emphasize that optimism is not important?
ReplyDelete- Has anyone noticed that Cunegonde is just the female version on Candide? They are both Optimist who are not smart and they each survive, what should be fatal, tragedies only to endure worst.
Jia- Okay thanks for example.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I was getting a bit mad.
ReplyDeleteStephanie-- You bring up a good point that Voltaire would've put something to show that Candide would go against it. Candide was still speechless though, and I guess he let things just be the way they are? Maybe he was too weak to fight back, after seeing Pangloss get hanged for saying the philosophy. Also, I meant he was a gentle man (two seperate words), not a gentleman. Haha, sorry if it confused you.
Shelly-
ReplyDeleteNo one is saying that the only thing being satirized is optimism, it is just a crucial component that is important to understand to get the meaning of the other topics he is satirizing.
Just to make it clear I believe that for chapter 7 Voltaire is satirizing society's ignorance. Even though 300,000 people just died Candide is still hung up on the fact that Lady Cunegonde is so beautiful and cannot manage to think about anything else.
I think the old woman is Candide's savior because Candide is just released from being flogged and the old woman comes and helps Candide. The old woman helps Candide find Cunegonde.
ReplyDeleteShelly-
ReplyDeleteI think that was unnecessary, although it made me laugh.
Despite this, she does have a point. We know optimism is being satarized, if you happen to find another way, congratulations! Pointing it out is great because not all of s may have gotten it, but we should be branching away form it to find other topics that are being satirzied.
I AGREE WITH SHELLY. The whole book is satirizing optimism! I think that Voltaire satirizes Society's ignorance. I didn't get to explain myself, so let me do it again:
ReplyDeletePangloss=Enlightenment thinkers
Candide= society
Candide is very stupid and believes Pangloss. Once Pangloss dies, he starts to doubt and think that optimism is stupid. He gets exposed to thinking what he wants to think, instead of being hypnotized by this "all for the best" nonsense.
I agree with Jia. there is definitely optimism in chapter 7, for candide, becuase Cunegonde was alive.
ReplyDeleteA few questions maybe someone can help me out with:
1. Who is the old lady who helps Candide? Is she ne of Cunegonde's freind who helps her get closer to Candide or is this all coinsidence? Or does she represent more than the old lady who aids Candide?
2. Who is the other lady that was in the house? and whose house is this, that is out of town?
Ooh! I think the old lady being a savior is some what funny. What has it come to if an old lady is now a savior? I'm just not sure what catagory this falls under. Julio's comment sparked this in my brain for some reason.
ReplyDelete~Sarah
ReplyDeleteI have a doubt about Voltaire satirizing society's ignorance because, you're saying that Candide is ignorant about what's happening, but it's only individuals, it isn't an entire society.
Shelly- I support you getting angry. Of course he's satirizing optimism, been there done that. By the way, who won the Religion-satire war?
ReplyDeleteMaureen-
ReplyDeleteCan you really state Candide represents society? If so prove it.